SScom ports 1&2

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Otis Scarecroe
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:18 pm

SScom ports 1&2

Postby Otis Scarecroe » Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:01 am

KMI 's Danny stated:"When building presets for Standalone mode, there are 2 midi destinations available. SSCOM Port 1 is data coming from the SoftStep itself. SSCOM Port 2 is data coming from the MIDI Expander..."
What "type" of data comes from SSCOM Port 1?

I ask this in hopes that it is midi data via usb.Several months ago I had asked about the possibility of powering the Softstep via the usb port on my Kurzweil ( this works )and using the same usb cable to pass midi commands to the keyboard. At that time Keith said he wasn't sure if he could make that work.Just hoping it might now be possible.I have the expander already, but less stuff and fewer cables is always better.

Thanks,O
danny
KMI Moderator
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:28 pm

Re: SScom ports 1&2

Postby danny » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:15 pm

You are exactly correct, in Standalone mode any sort of control data you are sending out of SoftStep SSCOM 1 will be sent through the USB cable. As well, if you have the MIDI expander connected, you can use the MIDI input to send external MIDI messages out of the same USB cable. You need the MIDI expander to make this possible.

A specific example of this: SoftStep in standalone mode connected via USB to Kurzweil keyboard. MIDI expander connected to "Expand Input" of SoftStep. External MIDI device connected to MIDI input of MIDI expander.

Hope this makes sense.
Otis Scarecroe
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:18 pm

Re: SScom ports 1&2

Postby Otis Scarecroe » Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:47 pm

Hey Danny,
Thanks for the reply.
I'm reading this as a "In standalone mode,yes, you can control the Kurzweil with the Softstep through a USB cable with no need for the Expander." -and- " You can also control other midi instruments from the Kurzweil through the USB cable, if you -choose- to use the expander." (The use of the hyphens is in lieu of ability to italicize or bold the font !)

Do I have that right? (sorry, language is tricky business sometimes!!)

My intent was to use midi thru from the Kurzweil to connect to other gear,but i see interesting options here.I also intend to use the Expander when I'm just working with my guitar gear.

If the above statements about midi through USB are a reality, I've become even more intrigued with the Softstep!!!
Respect,Otis
danny
KMI Moderator
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:28 pm

Re: SScom ports 1&2

Postby danny » Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:06 pm

Both of these are 100% correct!!!
ronblechman
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:54 am

Re: SScom ports 1&2

Postby ronblechman » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:14 am

So, just to be clear, will the following setup work as described below?

Assume:
Kurzweil connected to SoftStep via USB
MIDI Expander's MIDI OUT connected to Hammond's MIDI IN.

Kurzweil's USB <-----> Softstep <----> Expander's MIDI OUT ---> Hammond's MIDI In

Result:
1) Notes played on Kurzweil keyboard will be sent to Hammond via MIDI Expander
2) Footswitch pressed on SoftStep will send control messages via USB to Kurzweil
3) AND... Footswitch pressed on SoftStep will also send control messages via MIDI Expander to Hammond
(i.e. notes from kurzweil will be merged with controller messages from SoftStep and sent to Hammond)

<keeping my fingers crossed...>
-Ron
danny
KMI Moderator
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:28 pm

Re: SScom ports 1&2

Postby danny » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:57 am

I can tell you that our SoftStep/MIDI Expander absolutely allows this to work, but in your situation it will completely depend on the Kurzweil's USB MIDI i/o capabilities. If the USB port on your Kurzweil allows sending and receiving MIDI simultaneously then it will work exactly as you have detailed.
I would hope your Kurzweil can both send and receive MIDI through USB. We have tested this exact sort of connection setup so we know it is possible, but solely dependent on the hardware you are using's MIDI i/o capabilities.
Whats really great when this works is that in your SoftStep's standalone scene preset, you can define which port the control mappings are sent through, either the SoftStep output (Kurzweil) or Expander output (Hammond). Or they could be sent to both simultaneously.
Otis Scarecroe
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:18 pm

Re: SScom ports 1&2

Postby Otis Scarecroe » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:35 pm

Hi Danny,
To avoid confusion,one more thing from Kurzweil manual : "The PC3’s Type B USB port is only intended for connection to a USB Type A port".
I'm assuming this shouldn't change our basic premise of everything above working as suggested.
It' only a cable,yes? Type B male to Type B male should work? Found here: http://www.dcables.net/USB-B-to-B-Cable ... gwod8VzReA
thanks again, Otis
Edit : I sent this idea to Kurzweil and received this in reply:

" KURZWEIL
Operational Tech Support

Not compatible, the manual is correct I am afraid.

Good news though it appears that this company produces an accessory
to facilitate this bridge. Check out their "SoftStep MIDI
Expander". Then you can connect via traditional MIDI. "

Well,heck!! Back to square one?? That doesn't make sense to me,but what ya gonna do??? Only difference in the USB cable, it would seem,is the plug.Wires are the same,no? Four wires to contact points in plug.
Did you, at KMI ,test with Type B to Type B? What keyboard did you test?
Hoping this is still workable,Otis
ronblechman
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:54 am

Re: SScom ports 1&2

Postby ronblechman » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:25 pm

Otis -

Unfortunately, I suspect the only solution is to use the midi cables.
After looking into this a little further, my understanding is that you need a USB-A to USB-B connection for things to work properly. USB-A implies that power is supplied by the jack, whereas USB=B implies it is not.

-R
Otis Scarecroe
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:18 pm

Re: SScom ports 1&2

Postby Otis Scarecroe » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:16 am

One more thing on that for now.The Kurzweil PC series -supplies power from- the Type B (female) port ( at least that 's what I was initially told by Kurz Tech support. I'll ask again). This is counter to what you might normally expect, I think.

Peripherals are normally - powered from - the computer's USB Type A port aren't they?
I would understand the need to go to a Type A connector if it somehow avoids a "power loop" in consideration of power at both ends of the cable, but the Softstep has no power unless you supply it some.

Yada yada, I know , but it really would be nice to just drop a single USB cable from the Kurz to the Softstep and be done with it. I'm not yet convinced it's not doable.

Respect,O
danny
KMI Moderator
Posts: 14
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:28 pm

Re: SScom ports 1&2

Postby danny » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:48 pm

Powering via USB cables should not be a factor in this specific setup you are going after. The issue is the Kurzweil USB jack being able to receive and send on multiple ports simultaneously. The example we have tested with uses a USB cable and works fine because it can send and received MIDI on multiple ports simultaneously (iPad).

The reason you need multiple port support is because the Kurzweil will receive SoftStep control data on Port 1, as well as send it out the MIDI expander (to the Hammond) on Port 2.

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