Abandonware?

mindbeet
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:05 am

Abandonware?

Postby mindbeet » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:19 pm

Reflecting on the latest KMISupport post I conclude we are probably stuck with abandonware. "Not on the radar at the moment..." Weird attitude towards a Crowd funded project that is still in stores...

This could have been such a great product. It is OK but.... There are some weird omissions and bugs I have learned to live with, like no pitch bend on the sliders, the weird end points on the "rotaries", note off on bank switching. What makes me really mad though is the fixed LED MIDI. What if I could have the LED's show what's going on in Sugar Bytes Turnado or any software really, what is up with that? Totally useless as it is, what is the point of all those pretty lights but to fool people like me into buying this. There really are some much cheaper alternatives offering the same basic functions.

Hey! You made some claims, I bought it for 229€, it still doesn't work. What now?

It's been ages since the last real upgrade. Sure there are some "Projects" but that has really nothing to do with the QuNeo and is really just external software like Max for Live, scripts or mappings.

Since receiving my pre ordered QuNeo in december 2012 with a faulty cable there has been nothing but trouble and I will never recommend or buy a KMI product again...
elmquist
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: Abandonware?

Postby elmquist » Mon Apr 21, 2014 12:52 pm

Small company syndrome, mindbeet! Even though KMI has many more software development resources than other companies in that category (say DSI) they still don't have the resources to work on all products at the same time. And not a word about this all too well known issue of maintaining existing products while being busy with developing new products. Unfortunately Its so!

I certainly sense a frustrated customer in your post. Really think KMI should provide an answer too. Such as (hint hint) confirming that they will make more firmware updates for their flagship controller product eventually.

Agree that it would be nice if LED control is working identical to other view controllers where the same MIDI message is used for both transmitting current controller values from device to host and for LED control from host to device. Akai's APC series and Novation Launchpad both work in that way. A few months ago I did sent a suggested solution for this to KMI's QuNeo firmware developer. But whenever it will actually work in their code base and that there is space on the device for such a 256 byte lookup table and a little extra code is of cause an open question. Remember, RAM and flash memory sizes in the micro controller world is not quite up to the desktop computer norm.

PS: I do not work for KMI. So please send customer/manufacturer relation rated messages in their direction only, okay!? ;-)
bluescreenerror
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:44 am

Re: Abandonware?

Postby bluescreenerror » Tue Apr 29, 2014 10:12 pm

I'd be very disappointed if this is the case. Any chance of some confirmation from official sources regarding whether or not we should expect any more Quneo updates?

If the answer is no, what are the chances of it being open sourced? I'm guessing zero but it doesn't hurt to ask.
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jscott
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Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2012 2:52 pm

Re: Abandonware?

Postby jscott » Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:20 am

Nothing about the QuNeo matches the common definitions of "abandonware".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonware
TheOtherSupport@KMI
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Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Abandonware?

Postby TheOtherSupport@KMI » Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:03 am

Thanks for the reference jscott. The QuNeo is definitely not abandonware, we still fully support the product and it's users as best we can with a VERY small team of software/hardware engineers. Those engineers are busy developing new products, and enhancing others. The crowd funding covered the initial development, manufacturing, and continued support of the controller.

Now, onto some of your gripes about the QuNeo. None of the things you mentioned are bugs. They are all design choices that were carefully considered, and were decided to be the best compromise to provide adequate functionality to the MOST people. Not users of sugarbytes turnado or whatever plugin you really like to use. This is a very versatile controller, and for that reason we had to make some concessions. I agree about the endpoints on the rotaries, I would like to have an adjustable endpoint, and maybe some alternative behavior. And I also agree that having LEDs mirror the messages would be convenient. More on that....

I am sure that there was a reason that the engineers decided to fix the midi for LEDs. My guess is that it had to do with the fact the pads can send out 3 different dimensions of data. Which dimension do you want to be mirrored? Note? Pressure? Location? See what I am getting at? Incorporating mirroring, and making it usable, stable, and flexible would have been a pretty large undertaking. Every new feature that can be customizable takes up memory on the Quneo, perhaps there is just not enough room on the chip to put in every little thing, to account for every foreseeable application of the hardware.

Show me a cheaper alternative that offers note, pressure and location on 16 pads, and 8 sliders. I dare you.

How exactly does the controller not work? It sends midi data, correct?

The projects have everything to do with the QuNeo and how it can interface with a variety of software, and demonstrates that the LEDs can indeed show you what is going on in other software, contrary to your statement. An industrious computer musician can figure out many ways to use this controller and manipulate the LED's.

Like TheSupport said, it is not on our radar at the moment. We just finished a complete overhaul of our softstep hardware and firmware. We are in the middle of updating the 12step editor (which has never had an update), and have other projects which are taking up a lot of our engineering resources.

I'm sorry that you've had a bad experience with your QuNeo. You're more than welcome to try your cheaper alternatives.
mindbeet
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:05 am

Re: Abandonware?

Postby mindbeet » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:15 pm

Thank You for Your input.

I get what You are saying and You nailed it when You dared me. It's not all hate, I use it on a regular basis, I really like the form factor and the pads are pretty good. I have made some good use of it's programmability like setting up musical scales and trigger buttons. But let's face it, the precision of the "sliders", XY and pressure is not very useful. It's more of a gimmick and I would love to trade it all for some better LED control. What to mirror? Well just let me decide. You have this vast editor where I can edit almost everything but then some things I really need to I can't. Then I have to use M4L or Bome MT. The LEDs are a big thing with the QuNeo since we musicians usually don't work in daylight.

It tries to do too much and does none of it really well. I can get better drum pads, sliders and pressure sensitive keys altogether cheaper, not in the same unit but that's not really an issue.

What I need as an industrial musician is precision and ease of use. I do just fine performing with my DJ gear, a regular synth or guitar but when I want to control something more like my DMX-lights or an effect I do not have time to jump in to Max for Live or Python. Every time I have tried I end up grabbing my KORG nanokontrols, Midifighter, Launchpad or Maschine just because they do what they should with ease and precision.

(Yes I have all those cheaper and more expensive alternatives as well)
TheOtherSupport@KMI
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Abandonware?

Postby TheOtherSupport@KMI » Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:38 pm

I tried to explain why we didn't include the ability for users to decide how they want the LEDs to respond.
The editor is huge, and we don't have very much wiggle room as far as how much data we can store on the Quneo hardware itself. It's just not feasible without sacrificing some of the features that are absolutely necessary for the unit to function properly.

The physical resolution of the controls is the bottleneck in the usability of the sensors, in my opinion. The sliders are just too small to get accurate 0-127. The same can be said of x/y on the pads. I actually don't use the product in practice for that reason. I have other controllers that do the job a bit better.

The Quneo can be seen as a jack of all, master of none.

I would argue that easy LED feedback from software to the QuNeo is not something that is 'Needed' for the product to function as advertised. YOU may really need it, but like I said earlier we had to make concessions and decide what would be of the most use to the most amount of people, while maximizing the general functionality. The Quneo is definitely a controller that is not meant to be plug and play. It requires some leg work on the part of the user to get it to conform to their specific needs. Especially something like controlling DMX via midi.
mk4kc5cmc4@gmail.com
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:36 am

Re: Abandonware?

Postby mk4kc5cmc4@gmail.com » Mon May 05, 2014 8:47 am

TheOtherSupport@KMI wrote:
How exactly does the controller not work?





For me, after almost 2 years, Quneo is STILL unable to accurately change between 2 FACTORY presets in Live. When changing from preset 1 to preset 9 (which is the Live control preset), the Quneo's LEDs do not change to reflect the my Live set's status, which makes it pretty much useless as a clip launcher. I've sent emails to Support as well as posted here, to no avail. This is not some deep, weird user specific set up - this is a total fail in simply changing between 2 factory programmed presets. It's also a feature your company advertised as working 'out of the box' on Quneo, which simply is not true. I'm not as disappointed in Quneo as the OP - I've found a way to work with it's quirks, and since the pads were updated to be more sensitive, I've really grown to love them - but there's definitely a half-baked feeling about this device. It is what it is, but I will echo the OP's sentiment that I will think very, very hard before ever buying a KMI product again. I will certainly never buy one until they've been released for while & tested in the wild.
TheOtherSupport@KMI
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Jan 31, 2014 5:31 pm

Re: Abandonware?

Postby TheOtherSupport@KMI » Mon May 05, 2014 11:10 am

Well, now you are getting into script territory, not preset changing. The reason the LED's don't update has little to do with the Quneo, and everything to do with the script. It's not the preset that is defining the communication to and from Live, it's the script. Just thought I would clear that up.

Are you using Live 8 or 9? A few things changed under the hood with the Live API in version 9. I've had reports of some things not working quite as expected after the upgrade?

After switching to the preset have you tried pressing the rhombus button? When I first loaded up the script, and switched into preset 9 for the first time, it gave me nothing. And I was befuddled. A simple press of the rhombus button updated the QuNeo with the state of my Live Set.

To be fair, the presets are changing just fine, I assure you, but their is something else that is getting in the way of the bidirectional communication in your setup. The QuNeo functions just fine as a clip launcher.
mk4kc5cmc4@gmail.com
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2012 9:36 am

Re: Abandonware?

Postby mk4kc5cmc4@gmail.com » Mon May 05, 2014 11:46 am

TheOtherSupport@KMI wrote:Well, now you are getting into script territory, not preset changing. The reason the LED's don't update has little to do with the Quneo, and everything to do with the script. It's not the preset that is defining the communication to and from Live, it's the script. Just thought I would clear that up.

Are you using Live 8 or 9? A few things changed under the hood with the Live API in version 9. I've had reports of some things not working quite as expected after the upgrade?

After switching to the preset have you tried pressing the rhombus button? When I first loaded up the script, and switched into preset 9 for the first time, it gave me nothing. And I was befuddled. A simple press of the rhombus button updated the QuNeo with the state of my Live Set.

To be fair, the presets are changing just fine, I assure you, but their is something else that is getting in the way of the bidirectional communication in your setup. The QuNeo functions just fine as a clip launcher.



Script or preset, it's something that came with the device from the factory, and should work as advertised IMO. I realize KMI had some issues with the person who wrote the script initially, but that doesn't help me much as an end user.

I have used the Quneo on both 8 and 9 with the same set of issues, but I'm currently on 9. You are absolutely right that the preset is in fact changing (ie the pads DO become clip launchers once the preset is changed), but that the Quneo is not reflecting the correct status via it's LEDs. I've tried the Rhombus button after changing to preset 9, it doesn't do anything. I have to physically hit the pads to get them to reflect the proper state - obviously this is not useful, since you inadvertently fire clips.

I'd love to hear what exactly it is in my set up that is causing the issues. So you're saying that a properly functioning QuNeo should reflect the correct status of a Live set immediately upon switching to preset 9, and that I'm not experiencing this behavior due to some flaw in my personal set up?

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