is there a tilt delay?

JimmyTheSaint
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:23 am

is there a tilt delay?

Postby JimmyTheSaint » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:36 pm

When I go to control pitch bend with tilt in the usual way, I don't get any pitch bend until I've sustained the note a bit. I'd estimate the delay at 0.4-0.8 seconds. That's surprisingly long, and it interferes musically when you want to bend a note that you just hit. In other words, even at a moderate tempo, I strike the note and then want to bend it up and back for the 2nd and 3rd 16th notes, but there's no bend until the 3rd 16th note, which is not what I played. If I press and hold for longer than some apparent "kick in" time, I can then bend normally. I've tried different settings, but can't solve the problem. Am I missing something here, or is there a built-in delay before tilt becomes available?
TheSupport@KMI
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:30 pm

Re: is there a tilt delay?

Postby TheSupport@KMI » Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:38 pm

It's possible there is a hard-coded delay on the tilt activation — I'll have to confirm with the firmware programmer. If there is one I doubt it would be that long (0.4-0.8 seconds), but I could be wrong there.

There is definitely a settable "tilt sensitivity" parameter up at the top of every tab. This adjusts how much tilt movement is required to be considered "tilted". Moving it up to 127 will make it as sensitive as possible. You'll have to do this for each of your presets as this parameter is saved per preset, not globally.
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JimmyTheSaint
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:23 am

Re: is there a tilt delay?

Postby JimmyTheSaint » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:04 am

I had tweaked all the settings before posting. The sensitivity setting didn't fix it. Yeah, if you could find out the expected latency for tilt to kick in, that would be good. I would say at a tempo of about 70, the delay approaches one 16th note. So that would make it 0.2 seconds, which is way too long for music.
TheSupport@KMI
Posts: 726
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:30 pm

Re: is there a tilt delay?

Postby TheSupport@KMI » Tue Feb 25, 2014 3:24 pm

There is indeed a delay. What's happening is this:

1. Press a key, the key turns on
2. Wait 100ms
3. Sample the absolute value of difference between the two key sensors (one on top and one on bottom of each key) — this will be the intial "comparison point".
4. Wait 250ms
5. Sample the value again and compare to the initial comparison point
6. If tilt threshold is crossed, engage tilt — else, continue sampling and comparing.

So you are correct. At the absolute minimum there is 350ms of delay (0.35 seconds) between the key turning on and tilt engaging.

I doubt this will be changed though. We went back and forth many, many times trying to settle on a tilt behavior. When it was really quick and easy to engage tilt people would say it was too difficult to play chords in tune (when pitch bend is mapped to tilt). When it was more difficult to engage tilt people would say it was too hard to use. Eventually we settled on the current method.

As cool as it would be for a person to master playing a QuNexus with insanely sensitive tilt mapped to pitch bend (like some weird violin with a keyboard layout), making tilt super easy to engage will disappoint more people that it would help.

I can put in a feature request for a user-settable delay time though. But honestly I think our editors could use some paring down of options, rather than adding more.
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JimmyTheSaint
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:23 am

Re: is there a tilt delay?

Postby JimmyTheSaint » Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:15 pm

Yes, I can tell from the current feel that if tilt were immediately engaged, it would be challenging to strike a single note in tune, let alone a chord. But the current delay prevents the common kind of bending that you hear, for example, in blues guitar styles. I think that's way too much to sacrifice for the sake of a simplified UI. I think all we're left with is the ability to vibrato notes that have already sustained a bit (or goofy special effect bending), but I think manually vibratoing this way isn't nearly as useful as being able to bend in rhythm, blues style. So I request the user feature to set the "tilt engage delay" on practical musical grounds.

I think operating an instrument like this is already a bit geeky, so I don't see a problem with giving the user more control. In any case, instead of making painful UI compromises, why not divide the UI into some sort of "simple" and "expert" modes that the user can toggle in a simple way? Or perhaps leave the UI as it is, but add a menu item that brings up a box of "advanced features"? I'd really like to be able to try bending notes one-handed.
Dejay
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2013 12:58 pm

Re: is there a tilt delay?

Postby Dejay » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:16 pm

I'm a guitarists looking for a cool innovative midi keyboard that would allow me more organic control over pitch and volume. I got the QuNexus and I'm quite disappointed :(

The tilt / pitch doesn't work at all like I hoped. First it ALWAYS seems to pitch up to the set value so it's not "analog" at all. I realize this might be impossible with the used sensors but this is what I bought the QuNexus for and what I didn't get.

The delay just adds insult to injury. If I wanted simple to play, I would have bought a standard keyboard.
richiegusto
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:43 pm

Re: is there a tilt delay?

Postby richiegusto » Wed Jul 16, 2014 3:49 am

Yes, please let's have a way to configure both of these delays. I think being able to choose fast response to tilt control would be a great option!
catchy1
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2014 3:05 am

Re: is there a tilt delay?

Postby catchy1 » Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:08 pm

and i thought i was doing something wrong and blamed that i couldn't use the editor properly...
yes, please give use a option to set the delay, even turn it off completely please.
even if chords will be tricky, monophonic instruments can gain a lot from this.
also some synths let you turn pitch bend off and map it to something else, like an lfo that's routed to pitch for instance, for vibrato.
elmquist
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 4:44 pm

Re: is there a tilt delay?

Postby elmquist » Sun Aug 10, 2014 6:36 pm

QuNexus is a really nice keyboard shaped 2D pad controller. There are use cases for tilt other than pitch bend and in these cases the tilt delay is not optimal. Allowing the user to control the tilt delay would be really nice. Thanks in advance!
emmett@KMI
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:00 pm

Re: is there a tilt delay?

Postby emmett@KMI » Mon Aug 11, 2014 2:22 pm

I hear you and I agree, I've logged your request.

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