Midi program change

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Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:19 am

Midi program change

Postby affro » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:59 am

Hi everyone

I'm hoping that someone can help me solve a situation that I'm in regarding midi program change on the 12 step.

I am running the 12step into a roland soniccell sound module (via the kmi expander).

I wish to send program change messages from the 12step to the soniccell, so that the soniccell patch will change when I change the preset on the 12step.

To select the user patch bank in the sonicell, I need the 12step to output CC#0 87 and CC#32 0, followed by PC x (x = patch number). See page 223 of the sonnicell manual (http://roland.com/support/article/?q=ma ... id=1810906)

According to the 12step manual, the CC#0 value (MSB) is fixed at 0 and cannot be changed :( is this true? Is there some way that I can change this?

ALSO, the soniccell WILL accept CC#0 = 0 if I am trying to reference the GM patches instead of the user patches. But even when I try this, I can get the program change function in the 12step to work, but the bank change (LSB/CC#32) doesn't seem to work at all - it also appears to be stuck at zero? - If you look at page 231 of the soniccell manual, I can use the PC in the 12step to cycle through GM1/4/6/8 etc, but I can't get the LSB to change (for example) between GM1/2/3 with PC=1?

I hope that makes sense, I have some midi knowledge but I am not any expert by any means.

Thanks in advance.
Posts: 121
Joined: Tue Apr 29, 2014 1:00 pm

Re: Midi program change

Postby emmett@KMI » Thu Jul 30, 2015 12:19 pm

Hi affro,

The 12 Step is able to access 16,384 presets with a MSB hardcoded at zero and an adjustable LSB. I don't know why Roland decided to put so many important presets within the non-default MSB value of 87 when they could have easily fit all the presets on the device within a single MSB value. Generally the default value is zero, which is what the hidden value is for all devices that don't support bank control.

Unfortunately the 12 Step cannot access MSB=87 so that isn't going to change but if you are using a computer you can likely get around this with Bome's MIDI Translator which is a powerful but complex MIDI application.

On the Sonic Cell it looks like the GM sounds are the only ones able to be reached with MSB=0. It does seem like you should be able to access that whole section though. To program in the 12 Step editor you would enter into the bank field what you see in the LSB column of the GM MIDI sheet and in the program change field you would enter the value in the PC column of the GM MIDI sheet.

Does that not work for you?
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 4:19 am

Re: Midi program change

Postby affro » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:05 pm

HI Emmett

Firstly, thankyou for your response and I apologise that it has taken me so long to get back to you.

I have tried the method you described, and I see two errors:
1.) The PC column shown in the roland document (program change filed in 12step) appears to be incorrect by a factor of one (e.g. putting PC 19 into the 12 step then seems to select the GM patch corresponding to PC = 20 in the roland document).
2.) The LSB shown in the roland document (bank in the 12 step) doesn't appear to do anything at all, it is always the first patch for each PC that is selected no matter what the bank value is.

Some actual examples of what I found:
PC=19 and Bank = 0 in 12 step selects GM patch 45
PC = 19 and Bank = 0 in 12 step selects GM patch 45
PC = 62 and Bank = 0 in 12 step selects GM patch 133
PC = 62 and Bank = 3 in 12 step selects GM patch 133

Do you have any further thoughts on this issue? Seems very strange to me. I'm happy to test further if you have any recommendations.


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