In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

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In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby Robius » Sun Dec 16, 2012 3:14 am

I just got my Quneo, and feel like it doesn't quite deliver on usability to the extent the advertising said it would. I really really want to like it though, because it has such huge potential!

After reading this (quite well-hidden) forum I'm a little concerned we won't be getting the support this product needs to make it live up to its full potential.

I'd really love some input from other users!

KMI seem to be fully sidetracked toward the QuNexus, and the user base unfortunately seems a bit small (as well as limited by lack of proper tools) to be able to do any major work. The user community just seems hamstrung by the lack of support.

I'm beginning to have second thougts honestly. I can still return it and get, say, a MidiFighter 3D for the same price. The DJ Tech Tools guys at least seem dedicated towards continued support with tons of mappings and weekly sound packs - as well as a working dialogue with their user base. But there's just no getting around that The midi fighter just isn't as versatile as the Quneo...

How about you - do you regret buying in, or so you think the situation will improve?
Have you been able to work around the shortcomings of the software to the point where your happy with your purchase?

What would you do in my position?


I use Ableton Live and Windows 8. I'm still starting out (since about 6 months). I'm looking for production as well as live performance applications for my hardware: clip launching, effects, and preferrably room for expressive play. My other controller is an M-Audio Oxygen 25.
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Re: In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby face » Sun Dec 16, 2012 6:59 am

Robius wrote:What would you do in my position?

I would start learning how to map controllers in Ableton myself and not expect others to do it for me...
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Re: In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby Robius » Sun Dec 16, 2012 7:20 am

I'm getting my feet wet with basic midi principles right now. The midi learn functionality in Ableton, along with CoMA, works pretty well for basic functionality.

I'm just worried that much of the potential "advanced" functionality will end up out of reach. And there's no denying that well-implemented presets to learn from and tweak can make a world of difference, especially when you're still establishing a good workflow. That's why I was hoping support would be better, or at least that there'd be a clearer sign from KMI that things would improve.

You have to admit, things can seem a bit bleak judging by this forum...
Then again, could be most people are enjoying the hell out of their QuNeos and not posting here.
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Re: In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby dijidave » Sun Dec 16, 2012 4:01 pm

Hi Robius,
what U put in = what U get out.
It isn't going quite as advertised, however 4 the majority of users the available functionality is @ least 1 generation ahead of the game. Lets face it how many of us would need, (or know how) to use the raw data from their QuNeo!!
As you say "The midi learn functionality in Ableton, along with CoMA, works pretty well for basic functionality." so if U have your head around the software U want 2 control, the posibilities R endless, but you have 2 spend the time setting up & saving U're presets & mappings, the more complex U're setup, the more laborious th@ will be. (Though when the new improved editor is released th@ workflow should be greatly improved & with the expected firmware upgrade all your MIDI Hardware will be controllable without the need for a computer,{except to edit the Quneo presets 2 suit said Hardware} 8-) )
Yes there has been frustration with the sereming lack of support, & things not quite measuring up 2 the hype. Yes it does irk me th@ QuNexus has been Kickstarted B4 QuNeo is quite finished. But let's put this in perspective, this is a small company, breaking new, cutting edge ground & if we were to try to stifle Kieth's creative expression by demanding that he dot all the i's & cross all the t's on the QuNeo b4 he tries to fly the QuNexus maybe we wouldn't have any KMI toys @ all. ( & I still am wishing for a QuHarmonius, with Hexagonal playing pads, arranged in a harmonic table layout & plenty of sliders too 8-) )
So yes ,despite a few miss-givings ( & living in the real world, I've learned th@ expecting perfection only leads to dissapointment 8-) ) I would rercomend th@ you persevere with U're QuNeo, youré never going to find anything even close in this price range.
Good luck whatever U choose 2 do,
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Re: In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby Robius » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:03 am

Thanks Dave, you're probably right.

I was hoping for more and better port-purchase and software support, but right now it's not crippling me in any way. I've run into some annoyance I feel should have been adressed, but I can live with that as long as the updates we feel are necessary do get released e v e n t e n t u a l l y (i.e. within a couple of months, hopefully)

It's the uncertainty that's been killing me - not knowing if the situation will improve or if the customers will just be left hanging (had that happen way too many times, with electronics especially). The apparent silence (and delays) from their end is what really worries me.

I get that KMI isn't exactly Native Instruments, and as long as we're not abandoned before they finally deliver what they adveritized i can deal with that. I wish they'd be more open about it though...
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Re: In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby TwItCh » Tue Dec 18, 2012 10:33 am

As an owner of both the QuNeo and the MidiFightter3D, I would say that although DJTT may be pushing more in the way of mappings/presets that show off the particular abilities of the MidiFighters, the QuNeo is truly a separate beast. We have more things coming to market that have similar qualities like the Push and the new'ish Akai keyboard. But KMI here is trying to push new ground. The QuNeo is an example of a really great idea and a really good peace of kit. Yes, mapping something like the QuNeo is a daunting task but its well worth it. Is it an instant solution to workflow issues or an instantly playable controller? No. And I don't think that as ever their intention, its a tweakers toy. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't have the experience or time on their hands to be able to dive into the deeper ends of mapping.

Truth is most of us here are "amateurs" and have never dealt with how complex various studio setups get. And I will assume that most of us here haven't really ventured outside the box or past the related gear to whatever instrument they play. But I can tell you even using the editor as is, is better then playing yoga class behind a studio desk and a Mackie d8b with a noose of cables around your neck trying to figure out how you are going to get channel 46 and 47 into and back out of some fx box without having to change the cabling you already setup before (this is based on a true story, my neck hurts just thinking about it). In the realm of midi hardware and analog routing, things like Ableton and the QuNeo are about a thousand times more simple and faster to do then they used to be, even with some broken features or a couple bugs.

Could KMI offer better support/more updates/whateverelseyouwant, yes they could if the products they sold fit nearly anyone's workflow and skill sets and they sold 1000 units a day. But they don't, they dont have the resources or money to toss at things like that. They do the best they can. I have worked in a small company producing sample librarys and yes it would have been nice to be able to say "Oh hey some user said these 4 samples across 3 librarys are slightly out of tune, we should fix that and send out an update." But the truth is there are only so many hours in the day and even though the task seems small, to take one person out of the loops to fix something like that takes planning when you only have a couple people that can do the job and they are focused on things that will keep the company doors open.

I am not saying this is ideal or right but its just how it is. The external MIDI issue I know is a big one for some people and even KMI knows how big that issue is and so it will be fixed. but most of these other issues people have are not a flaw of the hardware or firmware or editor or anything else. It may be a case of usability/ease of use, it may be a lack of understanding what the QuNeo actually does, but it not a fault of KMI or the hardware itself. They designed an amazing thing that really is ahead of its time.

And just so you know I'm not a KMI fanboy, QuNeo is all I own from them(though admittedly I want a softstep/12step). And even my QuNeo arrived broken with a bad LED which I will have to send back at my own cost and loose a week of time or whatever while the controller is out of the studio. But I will live (god its depressing to think about not having it here as it is now one of my primary controllers)

That all being said.... just be glad you are'nt me, imagin the mapping issues you would face as a MidiMan Oxy8, NI Machine, Alesis PercPad, Novation Launchpad and Nocturn, and MF3D owner. It has taken me over 6 months to get even a basic mapping/workflow down using these controllers, various ableton controller scripts, and normal midi mappings. And just within the past moth or so have I been able to actually get a production/live performance setup even working let alone actually make any music.

Oh and if KMI support is reading this, I will try to email a vid/pic of the led issue but I wont be able to send the QuNeo out for a couple weeks as deadlines are approaching and I just got over a sinus infection and a tooth extraction.
Last edited by TwItCh on Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby TheSupport@KMI » Tue Dec 18, 2012 4:26 pm

Well said TwItCH. Well said.

I'm sorry to hear about the LED on your board. Those little buggers gave us quite a headache while making QuNeo.
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Re: In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby TwItCh » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:11 pm

Eh. Its whatever everything works, just not that one LED. I put in a ticket a couple weeks ago. I just cant send it out right now, way too busy.
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Re: In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby » Wed Dec 19, 2012 9:26 am

I'm definitely disappointed in the Quneo, mostly with the Live template/implementation though, I guess. I really just bought it thinking it would replace my MPD18, but there are a few things the MPD does (full velocity button, note repeat, and the way the MPD follows the on screen pads in Live's drum racks) that QuNeo doesn't that render it pointless for me. I've not found a single thing that the rotaries can be mapped to that isn't better served by a knob. The cross fader on my APC is far preferable to the Quneo crossfader. Firing clips & scenes is a nightmare compared to the APC. And I guess I just don't have much use for X/Y pads, as the Quneo is great for having 16 of those, but I've again yet to find something that I enjoy controlling with an X/Y pad more than a pair of knobs.

And I agree about the lack of support. Even stupid things like correcting the manual just seem to not get done. And the Qunexus thing is a kick is the balls, AFAIC. After the months of waiting Quneo backers dealt with, I'd think that geting that device up to snuff would be priority 1.

I fully accept that this device requires more time than I'm looking to commit to it to make it work 'up to it's potential'. For me, though, that's kind of backwards. A good generic MIDI controller should help you work faster & more efficiently, not require hours of manual reading/editing/programming. But that's just my personally feeling, which brings me to the next bad part of Quneo - it apparently has little/no resale value. I'm trying to sell mine for $100 (half price of a new unit) and haven't been able to get a single offer. Not a good sign. Guess it will just get tossed in my laptop bag & used as a drum pad when I'm on the go.
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Re: In retrospect... (Should I bail while I still can?)

Postby kslight » Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:29 pm

Here's a simple solution: If the QuNeo does not deliver what you want, and you can return it, then you should. No sense keeping it if you aren't happy (and have the ability to return it).

I kickstarted it and I'm still waiting for KMI to deliver on promises, and um...yeah still not working correctly with the MIDI expander to control hardware (I did not buy this for software control). If I had bought it at the store, knowing what I know now, it would have been sent back.

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